Ron Paul Bandwagon

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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Ren » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:03 am

I can't figure out why you defend the Fed so arduously. There's no financial wizardry or expensive econ words that legitimize the idea that you can just print money when you need it. Seems like common sense that when you print $7.7 trillion dollars out of thin air, it's going to devalue the currency and lower everyone's standard of living. Bottom line is, when you give the government and international banks free reign to jerk each other off and print money, on one hand for the sake of government adventures that the general populace would never in a million years approve raised taxes for, and on the other hand free interest payments on a mountain of national debt at the behest of bankers, they're going to take advantage of it at our expense. It's a hidden tax that kills any point there may have been to saving money, it lowers our standard of living, and it's the only means by which a government can spend money out their asshole without the approval of voters. Having a backed currency removes that power.

It's funny that you mention how a gold standard would affect international markets. What do you think would happen if we all went to the bank to get our money out? Our financial system is a house of cards, and it'll fall soon enough.
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby An Adam » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:23 pm

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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Ren » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:32 pm

So how is what the Fed does any different than counterfeiting?
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Ren » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:49 am

Don't worry about the dollar guys. The gentlemen at the Federal Reserve are financial wizards, and when they counterfeit trillions of dollars, it doesn't affect the value of your currency.
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby An Adam » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:30 pm

When they print money, they use it to buy bonds and control the interest rate and/or accomodate wild spending by the government. When counterfitters print money, they use it to buy cocaine and Ron Paul yard signs.
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Ren » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:11 pm

The Adam wrote:When they print money, they use it to buy bonds and control the interest rate and/or accomodate wild spending by the government. When counterfitters print money, they use it to buy cocaine and Ron Paul yard signs.


Hmm. I wonder what the budget would look like if they couldn't counterfeit money so easily.
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Ren » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:22 pm

Also, let's not have an audit of this private bank that issues our currency. Transparency and accountability are much better when they're shrouded in secrecy.
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby An Adam » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:50 pm

You think 9/11 was an inside job, don't you?
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Ren » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:35 am

What does that have to do with the Fed?
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Ren » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:21 pm

How nice it must be for the State to have sheep who unwittingly fight for it.
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Zach » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:45 am

Ren wrote:How nice it must be for the State to have sheep who unwittingly fight for it.


*yawn*

Edit: I'd bother actually responding with well thought out posts, but with comments like this it is obvious it is pointless. Your mind is made up and no matter what people say you will rail against it if it is an opinion differing from yours.
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Ren » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:05 am

Honestly, I wish I was more knowledgeable on economics and the innards of the Fed, the interest rates, the effect it has on the currency. There's been a number of times when I've sat down to read up on a Keynesian theory, then got hung up on some definition that led to another wiki page. I usually just end up pissed off at how inaccessible they make the language. I think the whole system is designed to be complex so that the general public won't realize the ponzi scheme they're getting fleeced in, and I just don't trust the unnatural machinations these guys use to profit off of it. I wish I was more knowledgeable on monetary policy. But I can't in a million years understand why government should have to borrow money rather than print it for itself. A 3 year old understands that you don't borrow or spend your way out of a debt crisis.

Go watch Bill Still's "The Secret of Oz." There's a ton of history that shows central banking systems being linked to tyranny and depressions.
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Zach » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:56 pm

Ren wrote:Honestly, I wish I was more knowledgeable on economics and the innards of the Fed, the interest rates, the effect it has on the currency. There's been a number of times when I've sat down to read up on a Keynesian theory, then got hung up on some definition that led to another wiki page. I usually just end up pissed off at how inaccessible they make the language. I think the whole system is designed to be complex so that the general public won't realize the ponzi scheme they're getting fleeced in, and I just don't trust the unnatural machinations these guys use to profit off of it. I wish I was more knowledgeable on monetary policy. But I can't in a million years understand why government should have to borrow money rather than print it for itself. A 3 year old understands that you don't borrow or spend your way out of a debt crisis.

Go watch Bill Still's "The Secret of Oz." There's a ton of history that shows central banking systems being linked to tyranny and depressions.


I'll try and get into this later. I literally have 5 minutes right now and wanted to post on the part I bolded.

You are almost 100% wrong on this. The best plans to get out of debt for countries and major corporations (not exactly the same thing but they are a lot closer than comparing personal debt to that of a country...those two have ZERO correlations) is often times exactly this. Without borrowing money to operate and without spending even more money you will have too many people go into financial ruin on their own and that will then make it almost damn near impossible for a country to recover. If the government could just ignore those people (and honestly that would be the best thing for the country itself but it just isn't something that can be done) then there would be ways around borrowing money.

I'm not sure exactly what you know or what you understand as I've never had any conversations about this with you. I just want to stress that you can't look at the countries debt as one would look at someones own personal debt. What is 100% true in one case ends up being completely the opposite in the other.

I've gotta run. I might not have even said anything here in this and I might have failed at getting my quick point across. I don't have more time right now though.
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby Ren » Tue May 08, 2012 1:20 am

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/20 ... deral.html
great article ^^

I've been trying to read more about the Fed, Keynesian vs. Austrian Business Cycle, etc. Not gonna lie, I really didn't know shit about economics, still don't know shit about economics, and am reading up on it all the time. I was oversimplifying when I talked about them just outright printing money, even though it is blatant theft of federal reserve note holders' wealth.

I'm convinced now more than ever that it's basically a big ponzi scheme. I don't think there's any human in existence that can properly manipulate interest rates better than the marketplace. The proclaimed 'recovery' we are undergoing right now according to establishment media and economists was really just an exacerbation of the bubble that got us into this mess in the first place. The Fed has basically kicked the can (of the natural market corrections that would have otherwise taken place) down the road, and made the inevitable pop of the bubble that much more devastating. Everything is shitty right now because the government, in tandem with the Fed, is doing almost precisely the absolute worst shit possible to end the recession. I know you guys feel it too when you go out to buy a gallon of gasoline or a box of cereal. Their inflation of the currency and manipulation of the credit system will ultimately result in one of two things: uncontrollable inflation or outright collapse. Since the Fed doesn't appear to have any interest in austerity we'll more than likely just bleed a slow, inflationary death until we finally hit rock bottom and real adjustments can take place.

We haven't even seen the real effects of the bailout to this point. I mean, if the fucking thing had to happen, I would have at least like to seen the actual debtors bailed out. That would have been much more preferable to rewarding the banks for their malinvestments with cheap money and billions in profits. My understanding is that most of the $770 billion in bailout money is still being held in reserves, so it's hard to say how hard it will hit once the devaluation is realized. Never mind the trillions that have been loaned out to foreign banks in secret.

Granted, the dollar will remain fairly stable versus the other ponzi currencies out there, but the real value of it is being debased, stolen and transferred every day. I think even the Keynesians are giving up the ghost on this shit.

Paul Krugman, the infallible wizard of economics. A guy that believes in maximum government spending, maximum Fed intervention, and doesn't see any merit in auditing the Fed is hailed by the establishment as the genius economist of our time. Seems legit.

I actually don't defend the Fed in all cases -- see my magazine article from last Sunday! But the right critique of the Fed is that it's failing to deliver on its mandate to pursue full employment, not that it's doing something that Ron Paul may consider dangerously inflationary but actually isn't. As for auditing -- audit what? The Fed isn't a business; its job is to manage the economy, and the audit there is what's happening to unemployment and inflation.


Seriously? Any mildly sentient being can see that there are plenty of good reasons for an audit of the Fed. Then he came out with this gem here.

May 1, 2012, 9:16 am
On the Uselessness of Debates
A bit of meta on my “debate” with Ron Paul; I think it’s a perfect illustration of a point I’ve thought about a lot, the uselessness of face-to-face debates.

Think about it: you approach what is, in the end, a somewhat technical subject in a format in which no data can be presented, in which there’s no opportunity to check facts (everything Paul said about growth after World War II was wrong, but who will ever call him on it?). So people react based on their prejudices. If Ron Paul got on TV and said “Gah gah goo goo debasement! theft!” — which is a rough summary of what he actually did say — his supporters would say that he won the debate hands down; I don’t think my supporters are quite the same, but opinions may differ.

Tales of historical debates in which one side supposedly won big — like the Huxley-Wilberforce debate on evolution — are, in general, after-the-fact storytelling; the reality is that that kind of smackdown, like Perry Mason-type confessions in court, almost never happens.

So why did I do it? Because I’m trying to publicize my book, which does have lots of data and facts — but those data and facts don’t matter unless I get enough people to read it.


What a clown. Anyway, he recently had a pretty colorful debate with Ron Paul about monetary policy. You can watch their debate here: http://youtu.be/WEoGKpnutyA

Even fucking Steve Forbes came out and said Ron Paul should be chairman of the Fed, although I question his reasoning for advocating it. http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/20 ... ld-be.html

Point is, I think there's a big move toward the idea of sound money and free markets, manifesting itself in the form of a couple states moving to legalize gold & silver as currency, and when all is said and done I think the so-called geniuses of our time will look like fucking clowns in 5-10 years. So yeah. None of this stuff even touches on the housing bubble, which the Austrians were fucking ALL OVER while the Keynesians waxed eternal about how invincible the market was.

Sorry if this post is a bit disjointed, just been reading a lot of shit and figured I'd share my thoughts at this point. I still don't really understand most of the economic terminology that John Maynard Keynes brainwashed academia with, but I think it's obvious at this point that the Fed has failed to deliver on the stability and employment mandates it was supposed to live up to. It's a dark age indeed for people who use dollars.
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Re: Ron Paul Bandwagon

Postby AlexR » Tue May 08, 2012 2:24 am

Worst thread ever?
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